From Bioethics to Rolling Stone: How Elizabeth Yuko Explains Complex Issues Through Journalism

When you hear “bioethics,” you might picture abstract debates and dense academic language, but that's not the case with today's guest. I’m joined by Dr. Elizabeth Yuko, an award-winning journalist, bioethicist and longtime Rolling Stone contributor, to talk about the real-world ethical choices hiding inside health headlines, medical research and public policy decisions that don’t come with clean answers.

We dig into how Elizabeth built a career that blends deep expertise with plainspoken science journalism, from her early training to reporting across public health, culture and even design. She shares what it was like to spend months closely following the researchers working on COVID vaccines, why long COVID coverage still struggles for attention and how grief became a central part of her early pandemic reporting while she was sick herself. Along the way, we talk about how journalists keep stories accurate when misinformation spreads fast and when once-trusted institutions no longer feel like reliable touchpoints.

Then we get into media ethics right now: AI in newsrooms, AI-generated drafts, sloppy AI research habits and the growing pressure to write for SEO or to “optimize” stories so chatbots cite them. Elizabeth makes a clear argument for why journalism should serve readers first. We also cover neurodiversity, including her ADHD diagnosis, and yes, how The Golden Girls can be a surprisingly sharp framework for explaining bioethical dilemmas. If you work in PR, she closes with straightforward pitching advice on relevance, exclusives and what immediately raises red flags.

Subscribe for more conversations with the people who report on the world, share this with a friend who cares about media ethics and leave a review telling us what part of the AI and misinformation conversation hit you hardest.

Dr. Elizabeth Yuko website: https://elizabethyuko.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabethyuko/

Rolling Stone: https://www.rollingstone.com/author/elizabeth-yuko/ 

TEDx Talk: Bioethics and The Golden Girls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rn1RyDPZOA 

Fordham University bio/profile: https://www.fordham.edu/academics/departments/ethics-and-society/faculty/elizabeth-yuko/ 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Angela 0:05

Welcome to Media in Minutes. This is your host, Angela Toole. This podcast features in-depth interviews with those who report on the world around us. They share everything from their favorite stories to what happened behind the lens and give us a glimpse into their world. From our studio here at Communications Redefined, this is Media in Minutes. Today we're talking with Dr. Elizabeth Yuko, an award-winning journalist, bioethicist, adjunct professor, and longtime contributor to Rolling Stone magazine, whose work spans health, science, ethics, culture, and design. Elizabeth has written for publications including The New York Times, The Atlantic, CNN, Architectural Digest, and many more. She holds a PhD in bioethics from Dublin City University and is known for making complex ethical issues accessible, sometimes even through the lens of the Golden Girls. From public health and neurodiversity to culture, urban design, and ethics in everyday life, Elizabeth brings a perspective that's been deeply informed and incredibly relatable. Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast.

Elizabeth 1:14

Thank you so much for having me.

Angela 1:16

Yes. You know, we must first start with for those who are not familiar, what exactly is bioethics?

Elizabeth 1:24

Bioethics uh involves the difficult questions about health, medicine, research, public health that have no easy and clear-cut answers. So it's about weighing risks and benefits in order to make an informed choice, whether that's about having a procedure, participating in research, or passing a health policy.

Angela 1:44

So what when did you learn about bioethics and how did you get interested in it?

Elizabeth 1:49

I first learned about it my senior year of high school. Okay. I went to a Catholic school and we had a lesson in bioethics where basically we're we were taught the Catholic position on everything. Um I don't necessarily uh agree with. Some of it I do, but not a lot of it now, several years later. So that was my first exposure. But um I was living in Ireland several years ago and I wanted to stay. And so I found a funded PhD that happened to be in bioethics, and I applied for it and ended up getting it. So then that became my focus.

Angela 2:30

Wow. And did you kind of, I don't know if this is the right words or not, fall in love with it as you were learning it or yeah.

Elizabeth 2:36

I mean, um because we're dealing with like some of the most difficult issues in medicine, it's not always fun. These are usually very conversations. Death is involved a lot. True. Um, but uh yeah, as a discipline, it's it's never boring. So I appreciate that very much.

Angela 2:58

That's a good way of putting it for sure. And you have such a unique combination of journalism and bioethics. Did you always see journalism as your path?

Elizabeth 3:09

I did, yes. Um, I've wanted to be a journalist for as long as I can remember, going back to being a little kid. Um, and I was on my college newspaper all four years. I was editor-in-chief my senior year, and I happened to be covering an event with Larissa McFarquire from The New Yorker, who's lovely. And we were kind of in this journalist holding pen at a Michael Moore event. And so I was picking her brain about like how to get into journalism. And her advice was don't get your master's in journalism, get your master's in something else so you can specialize in a topic. Yes. So I knew I wanted to study in Ireland, and uh I found a program in international security and conflict, which really interested me. Uh, so I did that, and then I wanted to stay. So I ended up finding a uh funded LLM, a Master of Laws program, where I focused on migration law for two years, and then the PhD followed that. Wow. So what drew you to Ireland? Uh I studied abroad there uh one semester of my undergrad, and I just really felt at home there in a way that I never felt in the United States, and uh I just knew I wanted to live there again.

Angela 4:23

Oh, that's great. We went recently with my family, and it was it's such an amazing place. We really loved it as well. Did you live in Dublin? I did. Okay.

Elizabeth 4:33

Okay.

Building A Journalism Career Path

Angela 4:33

So what happened after that? Walk us through since that point, yeah, I guess briefly, but since that point to where you are today.

Elizabeth 4:41

Well, I got my PhD and I finished it and graduated in 2012, and the economy in Ireland was totally tanking at the time. I was working odd jobs under the table, cleaning houses, babysitting people, and I couldn't get a job. You needed to be sponsored if you're not an EU citizen in order to get any job. So I did what millions before have done and packed up my life in Ireland and moved to the United States for more opportunities. Um, then I ended up getting a job at Fordham University uh here in New York City in the Bronx, uh, working on an NIH-feded research project on HIV research ethics. Okay. Um and yeah, I did that for a few years and started freelancing on the side uh for a few publications. And then after a while, I realized I would much rather be writing for a general audience than just an academic audience. And I feel that I could do more good in the world in that capacity. So I uh switched. So I have been doing journalism full-time since 2016 and uh teaching a semester here, semester there.

Angela 5:53

Okay. So your work spans everything from science, health, culture, design. Um, I'm sure I could go on. How do you decide what stories you focus on and topics?

Elizabeth 6:05

Um, it really depends on which pitches get accepted and what I've been assigned. So um I'm fortunate to work with some editors uh that I've been working with for years. So they, you know, know I'm pretty much up for anything and will try to, you know, throw me assignments in my wheelhouse. But um yeah, I mean, I pitch a lot of things that don't get accepted. So it's that's kind of what what dictates. But I yeah, because I have a lot of interests, I have this running list of pitch ideas that time something pops to my head, I just write it down and then at some point we'll formulate that into a pitch and send it to the appropriate place. Okay.

Angela 6:45

So how do you describe your wheelhouse when it's so broad, I guess?

Elizabeth 6:50

Yeah, it's a great question. Um it is, it's everything you mentioned. Um, I mean, health is probably my my first and main uh area of focus, uh, just because it ties in with the bioethics uh background.

Angela 7:06

Right.

Elizabeth 7:06

Um, but I also have been writing for the culture vertical of Rolling Stone for 10 years now. And so I've been covering cults, crime. Um I started covering public health a little bit before the pandemic and then kind of led their coverage during the pandemic, especially the early days, because it's not uh, you know, a topic that they're used to covering there. Right. And then yeah, also during the pandemic, I started writing about architecture and design and especially how houses and buildings have been adapted to uh prevent the spread of infectious disease. And so I've been looking at that through both a current and historical lens. And yeah, so everything kind of goes together in a weird way. Right.

Angela 7:54

Because you know, you think about Rolling Stone and you're thinking music, obviously. Do any of your stories involve music for them?

Elizabeth 8:01

Um actually, my last, my very last one did. Okay. There's a documentary that came out recently on Netflix on someone from the FLDS church that had his own breakoff sect. And um, I interviewed one of his former spiritual wives who is no longer part of that cult and um is now embarking on a music career. So um, but yeah, I don't normally write about music, so it was a nice, it was a nice change.

Angela 8:29

That's a good tie-in, yes. What has kept that relationship strong for so long, you know, as a freelancer? It's people change your contacts at outlets, and um, you know, how have you kept that going?

Inside COVID Vaccine Reporting

Elizabeth 8:40

The same editor I started working with is still there. Really? Yes. And she is my favorite editor to work with by far. Um, at this point, we could basically read each other's minds. I know what she's looking for. She knows if I write something, you know, what I'm trying to say. Um, and yeah, it's really been that relationship, I think, that has kept it going.

Angela 9:03

Yeah, that's fantastic. What are some stories or a story that you've worked on recently that's stayed, it doesn't have to be recent, I guess, but that stayed with you um, you know, for after you filed it?

Elizabeth 9:15

I mean, probably the biggest one was I spent six months following, virtually following a group of researchers who are working on the COVID vaccine um from I think April to October of 2020.

Angela 9:30

Okay.

Elizabeth 9:31

Um, and I got to know them very well after talking to them for so long. Some of them were ER doctors, so I would talk to them after a shift when they've just seen all this death. And um just to see to get that inside look at how the vaccine came together in such a historic way um really felt like a privilege.

Angela 9:53

Yes. What are your uh thoughts on how um what's being said and reports lately not being released and that sort of thing on the vaccine since you've been so you know close to it?

Elizabeth 10:06

I think Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is an absolute disaster for public health and any type of health. And um for to have a known anti-vaxxer in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services is ridiculous in the worst way. And so withholding information from the public about the benefits of the COVID vaccine just because he doesn't believe in it himself is frankly unethical.

Angela 10:34

Um yeah, I'm not yeah, and you've been following it closely, obviously, because you were involved with uh all of the uh researchers who were developing it. So um have you been writing about that?

Elizabeth 10:47

I haven't written about uh about that. No, I'm um I've been on the Huntavirus for the past 24 hours.

Angela 10:54

Oh, yes, that is a huge one right now. I was going to say, too, we're living in a time where health um misinformation spreads incredibly fast online. There's such a lack of not knowing by the general public of who a journalist is, what AI content is, you know, all of that. How has that changed the responsibility journalists carry, you know, especially those like you covering science and public health?

Elizabeth 11:18

I think one of the biggest changes and challenges has been that governmental bodies like the CDC are no longer sources of accurate information. Because previously in my career, if you were looking for something, you knew that the information, whether it was statistics or an explanation that you found on the CD web CDC website was accurate, it was evidence-based, and you could use it in an article. And that's no longer the case. And so when your touch point is gone, you're really left to your own devices to uh, you know, determine whether a doctor you interview is, you know, keeping up with current science. And it just, it's a lot more work for us as journalists.

Angela 12:04

Yes. And I'm sure, I'm sure it's um sometimes almost impossible to verify that, you know. Yes. So how do you balance making complex ethical or scientific topics accessible without, you know, over simplifying them, but maybe without oversimplifying them?

Elizabeth 12:21

I think teaching has helped a lot with that. Um just having to be in a classroom and uh breaking down complex bioethics issues uh for undergraduate students who probably had never heard of the term bioethics before they've walked into my classroom. Um that has really helped me, I think, in my writing, break things down in easy to digest pieces. Um, or I picture, you know, if I'm explaining something to my mother. Um, you know, she's a I mean, she's no longer here, but uh she was a very smart person, but not necessarily up to date on everything. So, you know, assuming some knowledge, but uh and not talking down to anybody, but also explaining things very clearly.

AI Publishing And SEO Ethics

Angela 13:10

Yeah, we can't all be experts in everything, obviously. So we need we rely on uh journalists that are experts, either experts in certain topics or have studied, you know, have worked hard on that story to make sure it's credible. So yeah. Are there, I'm sure there is, I shouldn't even say are there, but I'll say, are there ethical questions in media coverage right now that you think journalists and the public should be talking about more?

Elizabeth 13:38

I mean, obviously AI is the big one. Um, I've been really disappointed in how some publications have adopted AI very quickly. I think whether they're using it for to create first drafts of articles and then having a real journalist come in and edit that, or whether they're using it for research, but not following through and checking the links that they send them, um, I think that's a problem. I also think that um the way a lot of uh coverage is dictated is problematic. Uh, it used to be primarily dictated by SEO. So what people are typing into Google. So if people are typing into Google something like will uh mangoes help with PMS, um I would have to you you have to come up with an article where the phrase do mangoes help with PMS appears verbatim in an article. And a lot of times people are searching for things that don't necessarily make sense or are flat out wrong. And so it's really frustrating when you get an SEO assignment that uh you have to address certain points that just don't make sense. And it's less about traditional SEO right now as much as it is moving towards optimizing your stories for AI. Yes. You want your or you know, publications want their stories to be the ones referenced when ChatGPT spits out the information at you. So um they're usually dedicated people on staff whose job it is to figure out what AI is looking for and then instruct journalists to structure articles around that. And I fundamentally disagree with that. That is not how media should work. Um, we should not be catering to AI. Um, and I don't think people realize that. So when they say you never cover this or this gets no coverage, right? I agree. I'd love to cover that, but nobody's searching for it. So, you know, I'm not getting those assignments.

Angela 15:45

Are you getting those type of assignments from a wide variety of outlets that are really focused on that as you described?

Elizabeth 15:54

Um, yes, actually. Uh I mean it's if something's in the news, typically, it's okay, but you could have a really interesting idea that nobody's ever written about or thought about, but it's not going to get picked up because no one's searching for it. And I think that really, you know, starts our growth as a society because new ideas aren't being put out there if no one's searching for them. So it's incredibly frustrating.

Angela 16:24

Right. How do you what do you do when you get those assignments?

Elizabeth 16:28

Um, I mean, it's it's work. Um and sometimes they're interesting. Uh you just have to kind of shoehorn in certain wording. And it makes the quality of your writing go down because it's never something I would ever write in that capacity. And, you know, sticks out a lot of times like a sore thumb, even though it's not supposed to, but there's really no way around it. So um it's not my favorite, but um, but that's unfortunately the direction things have gone in. So I've I've had to do it.

Angela 17:00

How many have you seen a lot of the outlets? Um, you mentioned, you know, AI writing first drafts. Have you seen that happening often?

Elizabeth 17:08

I'm trying, I'm blanking on the exact uh publications, but I remember reading like at the bottom of the article in italics, like this was generated by AI, and like you don't know until you're at the very end, and people don't even make it to the end. So, you know, that's that's frustrating as a reader, too, because as a consumer of media, I would prefer to have something written by an actual journalist.

Angela 17:39

Um Right, or to know up front, right? That it's not. We've been so careful as PR professionals, at least, you know, the ones that I work with, to not have have AI write anything we send to journalists. But it's like if it's happening on the outlet side, is that something we should be doing at some point? You know? Um, I mean that should as far as ethically, but the way it's going, there's a lot there to unpack for sure.

Elizabeth 18:04

Yes.

Angela 18:04

Um, and I'm sure studying ethics has changed the way you personally consume news and media, right?

Elizabeth 18:10

Yes. I mean, um it's always in the back of my mind when I'm reading something, um, especially about public health. Um it's some, it's and my students say the same thing that like once you have these ethical frameworks in your head, it's really difficult to turn it off. Um so yeah, that uh yeah, that definitely pops up.

Neurodiversity And Better Workflows

Angela 18:35

Yes, I'm sure. Some of the thing else I wanted to talk about is you've written and spoken openly about neurodiversity, including um ADHD and autism. How has that perspective influenced your work?

Elizabeth 18:49

Um, so I uh I have ADHD. Um, I was diagnosed in my 30s. I never ever ever would have guessed uh that I had ADHD because like a lot of people, I pictured like the symptoms of a hyper little boy, not a woman in her 30s who got her PhD in three years. That was actually part of it. My doctor was like, right, hyper focus is a huge part of it. The fact that you were able to do a PhD in three years is ample evidence that you do actually have this. So um it's it's definitely helped my workflow, I guess, uh, as far as being more patient with myself. Um and I mean, I do get into these periods of hyper focus where I can easily just sit down and not realize that like eight hours have passed and I haven't, which is not healthy. I don't recommend that. But uh that's definitely that's definitely been a change. And I I like writing about neurodiversity because I just I appreciate the direction the conversation has been going in for the past few years. Yeah. Um, rather than making it about deficits, um, making it about thinking differently. Yes. And so I've been happy to be a part of that.

The Golden Girls As Bioethics Case Studies

Angela 20:02

Absolutely. And and I've I've known so many people and hear so many stories of ADHD and autism diagnosed so much later in life. Um, so it's definitely a topic that's it's good that it's being talked about now for sure. I I also have to absolutely ask about using the Golden Girls to explain bioethics. How did that idea come about? And you even gave a TED talk on it, right?

Elizabeth 20:28

I did, yes. Um, so I love the Golden Girls. I've watched it um consistently since the show has been on the air. Um I've seen every episode multiple times. Uh like I had the DVDs, they came with me to Ireland, they're my comfort watch. And so I know every episode inside and out. And when I started studying bioethics, I was thinking, okay, well, that's in an episode of the Golden Girls. That's also in an episode of the Golden Girls. Wait, end of life issues are, research ethics are. So it just, I just mentally kept using examples or like little case studies from the Golden Girls. And so I thought, like, well, if this is helping me or makes sense to me, this might be a good introduction to everybody else to the field of bioethics.

Angela 21:16

Yes, that's great. We'll definitely include a link to it in our show notes so our listeners can watch as well. I must ask, what are you the most proud of in your career so far?

Elizabeth 21:26

Definitely my reporting from 2020, uh, from the beginning of the COVID pandemic. Um, I wrote an article in April of 2020 while I had COVID myself on COVID and grief and the different types of grief that you know, we were grieving our lives that we, you know, couldn't live. Yeah. We lost a loved one. We might not be able to have a funeral for them. And uh just all the different ways grief affected our life at that time. Uh and uh I also have long COVID. I Basically, I got sick six years ago and never got better. And I've been extremely fortunate the Rolling Stone has given me a platform to write about long COVID even before it had a name. So I got my first assignment on Lone COVID with them back in June of 2020. Um, and being able to highlight something that affects millions of people, but most people don't care about has been um has definitely been a highlight. Yes. How many people do they know how many people are affected by that? No, I think it it's in the tens of millions, but wow, we don't really have a a good solid estimate. Yes.

Angela 22:39

Oh my goodness. Um, what about what projects or stories you're currently working on or excited about?

Elizabeth 22:47

I mean, right now my brain is very focused on hontivirus. I don't know if I necessarily say I'm excited about it. That's a good point, right? But it did, this is gonna sound horrible, but it did feel like I was getting back in my comfort zone because you know, I like writing similar to how it was writing about COVID in the beginning. That I'm like, oh, this feels like putting on like an old comfortable pair of shoes. Oh goodness, like as far as like restructuring and doing the interviews and stuff. Um I've also been doing some pop culture commentary pieces for real simple, um, on, and these are kind of just more fun topics, um, like uh shipping co-stars or celebrity, like why we get celebrity crushes as adults, um, or like why hate watching is so addictive, stuff like that. So um, those have been kind of a fun departure from my usual stuff.

PR Pitching Advice That Works

Angela 23:42

Before we go, I must talk about PR professionals, since much of our audience, um, that's who much of our audience is. What makes a pitch stand out to you?

Elizabeth 23:53

Um offering an exclusive, I think, is a big one. Um, so I get a lot of pitches about cult documentaries because I cover them frequently for Rolling Stone. Right. But I'm not gonna be able to do a story unless I get an exclusive interview with like one of the survivors, for example. Um this is less of an issue in kind of health and medicine because it's not necessarily like exclusive territory. Right. Um that makes it stand out. And then also just a topic that I have written about before and like clearly have interested and care deeply about um seeing a pitch come up. I'm I'm more likely to look at it.

Angela 24:37

That's great. That's great advice. Are there common mistakes you see PR professionals make when pitching you, besides the opposite of those, I guess? Not being relevant.

Elizabeth 24:48

Yeah, I get a lot, I would say most of the pitches I get, which would be dozens a day, are for unproven treatments, snake oil subs uh supplements, and like health-adjacent wellness things. And the only time I really write about those is to highlight how dangerous they are. And so when I get, it's it blows my mind that I get so many pictures of it when like I'm like, if I write something about you, it's not going to be good. So like it might spark a story, a negative story. Right. Um, and then another thing, especially with health stories, is pitching doctors that are only that are tied to brands or products that can only comment if you mention the product. Because like if I'm writing a story on UTIs, I'm not gonna quote a doctor who reps a company that sells UTI supplements. Right. And a lot of times PR people aren't necessarily upfront about that. They'll just pitch the doctor and then be like, by the way, like after the interview's done, you're gonna need to include this, or the article will already have run, and they'll come back and say, could you just add this?

Angela 25:56

I'm like, well, that's that's yeah, and then that that doesn't uh develop great relationships either, does it? Right. Yeah. No. Is there is there a topic that you haven't tackled yet that you'd really love to explore?

Elizabeth 26:16

Yes. Um, so I did both my master's and my law dissertations on human trafficking, and um I've done a little bit of writing on human trafficking, but but right before uh Trump was re-elected, I was starting some initial reporting on an article on trafficking in the United States, especially for forced labor. And unfortunately, once Trump took office, the people I was interviewing, understandably, all backed out because they just didn't feel comfortable telling their stories even anonymously. And so I would love to revisit that someday.

Where To Find Elizabeth Online

Angela 26:52

Yes, let's fingers crossed on that one. Finally, how can our listeners follow your work or connect with you online?

Elizabeth 27:00

Um, I'm terrible at posting on social media, but the place I've often is Instagram. And my Instagram handle is just at Elizabeth Hugo, my name, nothing fancy. Um, and I do have a website which is just elizabeth yougo.com, um, which has not really been updated for a while, but you can find a lot of my older articles or you know, uh links to them and you know, grouped by different topics uh and other like videos, podcast interviews, that type of thing.

Angela 27:29

Wonderful. We'll include links to those as well. Thank you so much, Elizabeth. Of course, thanks for having me. That's all for this episode of Media and Minutes, a podcast by Communications Redefined. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to our show. We'd love to hear what you think. You can find more at Communications Redefined.comslash podcast. I'm your host, Angela Tool. Talk to you next time.